Debt, Where Is Thy Sting?

      The phone rings. It's 8AM.  You pick it up.  Who would call this early?  The call goes like this:

      YOU: Hello?

      Silence.  Then:

      THEM: Hello.  Is this (your name)?

      YOU: Yes…

      THEM: My name is Nomen Nescio.  I'd like to talk with you about a business matter.

      And then the fun begins.  It's a bill collector, calling to collect on a debt.

      With the economy the way it is, this sort of thing is going to happen more and more often in the future.  But with some preparation, you will be able to handle it.

      First of all, you need to realize three things:

      1)       When a bill collector calls, the entity you allegedly owed the money to has already given up on the debt: they have sold the debt to a collection agency.  The original creditor doesn't care one bit whether you pay it or not: they have already washed their hands of it.

      2)       The bill collector is a commissioned salesman.  He doesn't care about you, or what the law is.  All he cares about is making his commission.  If you talk to him at all, he will keep calling and calling, hoping to wear you down.  He will do anything: lie, threaten, scream, use foul language, or whatever it takes to get his measly percentage of what he forces you to pay.

      3)       The people calling you are bottom of the barrel types.  If they could have gotten a better job, they would have.  A lot of bill collectors are ex cons who can't get any other work.  These are desperate, and usually very ignorant people.

      It's kind of funny in a way: I remember a TV news report about debt.  The advice they gave?  Knuckle under, pay the money, and that's that.  Oh, who did they consult for the news story?  Bill collectors.  Oh yeah: talk about an unbiased source.

      Too many articles about debt start out with the premise of: yes, this is the system, and isn't it too bad, so just knuckle under and throw your money away to those losers and shut the hell up.  Don't try to find a workaround, don't try to beat the system, because it's The System.  This is not one of those articles.

      One lie that bill collectors try to pass on to you is that you can get sued for your alleged debt.  It's entirely possible, but only on fairly new debt, and they have to have proof of the debt.  If the debt is old, or if it has been passed to several different agencies, they won't be able to sue.

      Secondly, if you get sued, their blood money commission flies out the window.  They will do anything rather than let that happen.

      One simple universal rule is that debts are removed from credit reports after seven years.  Some states have different rules for different types of debts.

      As an example of the above, in Missouri the statute of limitation for credit card debt is five years.  After that point, debtors can no longer be prosecuted.  All they need to do to get a clean start is wait another two years, and they're debt free (provided they are smart and don't get into debt again).

      There is one nasty exception to the above: move out of your home state, and the clock stops.  You could literally leave your home state with some debts and come back 50 years later, and still be prosecuted for debt.

      As I said, bill collectors have to have proof that the debt is valid.  If a debt is passed from company to company (and they frequently are), then eventually proof of that debt always gets lost in the paperwork.

      One possible way out is to send a letter asking them to validate the debt.  You'd need to send it via certified mail.  Google the term debt validation letter to see samples.  You can also send them a certified letter telling them to stop all contact with you as well (if the debt is new, then that is almost asking them to sue you).

      Sending either of the above letters can work in some instances.  With the truly scummy bill collectors, they don't work. 

      All right, I can hear you saying: It's been 10 years since I had a debt.  It's off of my credit report, and I can't be prosecuted for it.  Why am I still getting harassed by bill collectors?

      There is something called zombie debt: debt that won't die.  Yes, you legally don't owe the debt any more, but it doesn't matter: bill collectors will try to collect it anyway.  Collectors used to give up after a few years, but now some bottom feeding companies are going after debts that are 10, 15, 20 or more years old.

      Here is how it works: Scum Sucking Thief Collections buys your debt from the original creditor.  They try to collect for a time.  Then they give up and sell your debt for pennies on the dollar to Felching Collections.  After a few months, Felching gives up, and sells your debt for even less to Sewer Weasel Collections, who tries, fails, and sells it to…

      As the debt gets passed on, it gets devalued more and more, yet they still ask for the original amount, or (usually) the original amount, plus fees.  If you wrapped up a dime and mailed it to them, they would make a tidy profit: but they don't see it that way.

      Let's see these people for what they are: they're debt speculators, in the same vein as the mortgage speculators that ruined the economy.

      OK, well, there must be some way out.  Will bankruptcy stop these people from harassing you?  Nope.  That would be naïve.

      The law is skewed toward business, and against the people; that's why we have this situation.  The basic law is this: let's say that legally you don't owe on a debt, whether through declaring bankruptcy, or the fact that the debt has expired.  Let's say the Cranio-rectal Inversion Collectors convince you to send them some money, any money at all.  You've just validated that expired debt, and made it brand spanking new.  They have you where they want you.

      These people can be crafty!  Sometimes they send credit card offers: We will give you a credit card if you promise to pay off your debt in monthly installments.  Translated into English: Your debt has expired, and there's nothing we can do, so we want you to revalidate it so we can harass you all over again.  And as a bonus, we'll give you a credit card so you can dig yourself in deeper!

      Some of the worst bill collectors have an underhanded technique: let's say a debt has expired, or is about to.  They falsify information on the debt, and suddenly it becomes brand new.

      Additionally, if you declared bankruptcy, and you pay on ONE debt owed, ALL of your other debts become valid again too.

      I visited a friend one time.  He had declared bankruptcy some years before.  You think he would be relieved, free of debt.  Nope!  He had to have caller ID installed on his phone line.  He had gotten several calls in the space of a few hours.  He'd look at the caller ID box, say “I don't know who that is,” and not answer it.

      The worst I ever saw was with another friend.  She was in her 40s, a very attractive woman who had been stricken with multiple sclerosis.  She couldn't walk, and had use of only one arm.  Her total income was $30 a month, and that was from social security (social security payments are not garnishable).  Yet the bill collectors still kept hounding her.  How was she supposed to get money—plucking it out of thin air with her good arm?

      Finally, the bill collectors soon realized that if they could try to collect on decades old debt, why not go the extra step and go after people who don't actually owe any money?  That's exactly what they're doing.  Their first target?  All of the suckers who caved in and coughed up money to them before.

      You're thinking:  suicide is the answer.  That will stop them!  Wrong. The bill collectors just switch their tactics, going after surviving relatives.

      Other tactics that don't work:

      1)       Getting cute.  Arguing with them, screaming at them, and so on.

      2)       Pleading, begging for mercy.  They've heard it all, thousands of times.  It won't work.  These losers want your money in their pocket, and they'll do anything to get it.  If these people had any sense of decency, they wouldn't be bill collectors.

      3)       Telling them what the law is.  I have received numerous reports of people telling those losers that their debts have expired.  The response is almost always the same: the collectors lie through their teeth, claiming that the debt is still fresh.

      4)       Humorous techniques, such as making rude and disgusting sounds.  The vermin hear that all day.  They're immune.

      5)       Whispering quietly so they put their ear really close to the receiver, and then getting an airhorm and blaring it into the phone's microphone.  Sadly, this won't work.  Phones are not capable of delivering the volume needed to make this effective.

      6)       Changing your phone number.  This works temporarily, but the losers always manage to find the new number. 

      7)       Getting on the do not call list.  The do not call law is a joke.  There are so many exceptions (bill collectors, charities, political candidates, pollsters, and on and on and on) that it is functionally worthless.

      8)       Privacy Manager/Anonymous Caller Block: This works in some cases.  But like all vermin, collectors have found out ways to become immune to it.  Caller ID spoofing (see below) is immune to privacy manager and anonymous caller block.

      9)       Credit counselors.  What these people do is act as a go between: they negotiate with the collectors and try to get your debt pared down.  Then you pay off the credit counselors in one monthly bill.  You're still in debt, but the person you pay is now the credit counseling company, and not the bill collector.  You've just shifted who you're paying, in other words.

      The above would be fine and dandy if all credit counseling companies were honest.  An uncomfortably large number of them are ripoff artists: you pay them the money, and they either keep all of it or just pay a token sum to the collectors.  I have seen so very many people complain that they are in even worse shape after going to a credit counselor than they were before.

      Besides, just think about it a bit: you see a credit counseling commercial on TV.  It costs millions to get that TV commercial up—millions of dollars in profit.  Where did that money come from?  They're making millions in profit from others' misery.  They're no better than the collectors.

      Reading the above, I wouldn't blame you in thinking that there are four ways to avoid being harassed by bill collectors:

      1)       Don't get into debt in the first place.   Hey, no problem!  I'll just pull out my time machine and fix that right up!

      2)       Fork over anything and everything to the bill collectors, denying yourself everything, even basic necessities, to feed their incessant lust for cash.  Sure, you'll feel like dirt afterwards, but at least they might stop calling, unless they decide you're an easy mark and decide to lie about nonexistent debt.

      3)       Never answer the phone, never pick up your mail, and live in fear forever.

      4)       Move out of the USA to another country, such as Canada.  Collectors can't collect debts to anyone outside of the USA (no doubt they'll some day try to cross borders).  This is a bit drastic.  Can you imagine the difficulty of finding work, a place to live, or for that matter, getting used to such delights as poutine (greasy French fries smothered with cheese curds and gravy)?  Finally, would you want to have to end every sentence with the word “Eh?”

      All of the above are unviable options.  While there is no way to get rid of the pests, there are ways to reduce their influence to a tolerable level.  I guess some will say that this article will alert the collectors, and they will find ways around them.  These people already know about all of the methods below.  The only people that don't know all of them are the people that need to know about them the most.

      Here are all of the methods that I know:

      1)       That old workhorse, the answering machine.  This is a good first line of defense.  This will help you to screen your calls and keep the vermin away.  It must be noted that for this to be completely safe (both with an answering machine and with voice mail), you can't give out your name: only your phone number.  State your name on the message and that's as good as saying “Yes, you have the right person.  Please keep calling.”

      ADVANTAGES: If you use the answering machine to answer your phone, and never answer it yourself, then they can never get through to you.  There is a one time cost (some machines go for as low as $10.00).

      DISADVANTAGES: You have to slog through all of the messages with the bottom feeders begging for money.  This can mean a huge expenditure of time..

      Voice Mail: All of the advantages of answering machines, with one additional bonus: if you get it bundled with caller ID, you can hear what number called.  You can listen for what number called, and if it's a toll free number (such as one starting with 800, 877 or 866) you can press a button on your phone and delete it without hearing it.

      DISADVANTAGES: You have to pay a fee every month from the phone company.  Unlike answering machines, when voice mail kicks in you can't pick up the phone and answer it.

      2)       Caller ID: A simple, basic service that everyone should have.  Your phone starts ringing?  Look at the number on your caller ID box.  If it's a number you don't know, or it's a blocked number or toll free number, just don't answer it.  If you get a lot of unwanted calls, you can just turn off your phone's ringer.  If a friend calls, you can just call them back.

      ADVANTAGES: Almost bulletproof.  But you do have to deal with the inconvenience of having to let the phone ring until the losers decide to stop calling (for some reason, they almost always let the phone ring six, and only six,  times).

      DISADVANTAGES: The monthly fee.  Also, I say this is almost bulletproof, because collectorscum have found a way of getting around caller ID: caller ID spoofing.  They can feed any number they want to your caller ID box.

      I remember reading an article about caller ID spoofing.  It seems the people offering that ‘service' feel no guilt at all about it.  After all, primarily the main people that have to deal with that are people that owe money.  No one else will have to worry.  Oh well, someone claims you owe money, so it's perfectly OK for you to lose your rights.  You bet.  How did that old story go?  Something like “They went after the communists but I didn't say anything because I wasn't a communist…”

      One website to go to is http://whocalled.us.  If you get a call from a number you don't recognize, go to that website and enter that number in its database.  If it's a telemarketer/bill collector, they'll have the information.  They even list the phony numbers (such as 000-000-0000) that the losers use. 

      One good way to use whocalled.us is not to answer your phone when an unknown number comes up on your caller ID.  Write down the number, and go to whocalled.us.  Enter the number, and chances are other people have been called.  If the number isn't listed, do everyone a favor and enter it.  Googling unknown numbers is also a good idea.

      Again, I can't help but be reminded of evolution in action: collectors develop ways to call people, they develop ways to resist their calling, and then the collectors adapt and find new ways to harass people.

      Caller ID manager: Now we're getting somewhere.  This is a simple box that performs a lot of the services that the phone company should.  You can block calls from any number.  You can even enter wildcards.  For instance, if you're getting calls from 800 numbers, you can just enter 1-800* and it will block all phone numbers starting with the 800 code. You can program it to block spoofed numbers, like the old 000-000-0000.  You can program it to hang up, and your phone won't even ring. 

      ADVANTAGES: It gets the job done.  If your tormentors are spoofing numbers, no problem: just enter the spoofed numbers too.

      DISADVANTAGES: Like a lot of good things, this is no longer available.  Check on eBay: just about everything winds up on eBay eventually.  But expect to pay $100 or more.

      Phonetray Free: This is an excellent solution.  You can download it free here: http://www.phonetray.com/

      Basically it's a program you run on your computer.  Hook your computer up to your phone line, run the program, and relax.  You can block any numbers you wish.  The program does allow for the use of wildcards: for instance if one agency from the 715 area code keeps using different numbers to call you, you can just enter the 715 area code and block all of their numbers.  You can program it to do a number of things, such as have it hang up, or play a message on the phone (there is a selection of .WAV files you can play, and you can make up your own and put them on as well).

      What I've done is set up a separate computer that runs 24 hours a day.  All it does is run phone tray free.  I have it programmed so that my computer's sound system makes ringing sounds when anyone not on my zap list calls. (the ringers are off on all of my phones).  When losers call, it automatically hangs up after the first ring (I don't hear it ring at all, since that is an option for zapped calls).

      As I said, you can put your own WAV files on this program.  I did download the “goodbye” voice from AOL, and might use that for when my ex girlfriend decides to call.  The program itself has several fun things to play, such as the “disconnected number” recording, as well as a stern voice that tells the caller that if they're a telemarketer to put them on your do not call list.

      DISADVANTAGES: just the obvious one: if the computer crashes or there is a power outage, it doesn't work.  I ran Windows ME on my secondary computer, so I had to deal with crashes  three or so times a week (I'm running XP now, and there have been less crashes).  Secondly, you have to have the right kind of modem.  Some modems will initialize, but will just put N/A up, instead of the actual number.  This resulted in a lot of missed calls for me.  The phonetray free website does have a list of compatible modems.  However, like a lot of programs out there, anything older than Windows 2000 is not supported.  Older programs will run phonetray free, but its fix for modems (fix CID) won't work with them,

      Here is what will happen, no matter what method you use: your alleged debt will be passed on from company to company to company, each new company being just a bit scummier than the last.  But if you stick with your guns, and don't allow yourself to be fooled by the occasional credit card offer with a catch, you'll be fine.  You'll never be completely rid of them, but they'll be a minor distraction.

      As long as the system stays the way it is, your options are limited.  Unless…

      What needs to be done: There are so many ways that the system can be changed.  Obvious ones are:

      1)       Classify bill collectors as telemarketers, to be governed by the same rules, including the do not call list.

      At present, all you have to do with a telemarketer is give one verbal notice over the phone to get them to stop calling.  With bill collectors, you have to send a certified letter telling them to stop contacting you.

      In a way, I can see why a certified letter would be necessary: collectors are such shameless liars that they could simply claim that they were never told to stop calling.  They can't deny a certified letter—though some do, in fact ignore them.   But if a lot of collectors would ignore verbal requests, option 8 below would end that problem.

      2)       Have an absolute expiration date on debt.  After seven years, debt vanishes, period.  No zombie debt.

      3)       End debt speculation.  Mortgage speculation ruined this economy.  Debt speculators are waiting in line to see what they can do to further degrade the situation.  When the first collection agency gives up, that should be it.  No selling of debt, period.

      4)       End debt discrimination in hiring people for work or renting apartments.  Can you imagine the sheer perversity of the system as it is now?  “You owe money, so therefore we won't hire you, meaning you can't pay it back even if you want to.”  It would seem to me that a person who owes money would be the best sort of person to hire: they need the money, so they jolly well won't have any missed work days.

      5)       End the idea that if a person marries someone with debt, then that person's debt is their problem.

      6)       Shorten the statute of limitations for debt.

      7)       Some societies have in the past come up with a debt forgiveness day, when all debts are forgotten.  This could also be a workable solution.

      8)       Have a system whereby if collectors receive a large number of complaints, they're shut down.  As the situation is now, collectors run rampant, and often get sued for millions.  Yet they all remain in business.  Think of the perversity of it: these companies have stolen millions from people, so many millions that fines in the tens of millions of dollars are just a cost of business.

      I am sure that some people reading this are thinking “So what?  Let the system stay the way it is.  I don't owe any money.  Screw all of those victims.  It's their own fault.”

      Think about what you have read.  Think about what will happen in the next few years: More and more people are working hard, giving all of the money they earned to bill collectors.  They don't buy anything, obviously enough, and in some cases they don't buy essential things.  Society will be divided into two classes: the workers and the leech class that sucks the life blood out of the workers.  About all that will do is provide fuel for anarchy.

      Ideally: The system doesn't need to be corrected, any more than a person that has gangrene needs a Band Aid.  The system can't be changed to make it work: it needs to be trashed completely.  Any other system would be an improvement.

      ADDITIONAL NOTES:

      A) Checking your credit report can be a good idea, just to correct any mistakes.  But like so much in the debt field, there are a lot of shady characters.  If you want a truly free credit report, go to annualcreditreport.com.  The company that claims to offer a free credit report gives you a report, but only if you sign up with their company, and pay (and pay and pay and pay) for their dubious service.

      And speaking of freecreditreport.com, I am sure you have seen their commercials.  They're all good primers in what is wrong with the system.   In one commercial, this 20something sings a song about how he married his sweetheart.  He didn't know she had defaulted on some credit cards, and as a result he can't get a home loan.  He laments that if he had known that, he wouldn't have married her.  Can you even wrap your mind around the sheer perversity of such a system that would encourage that?  Oh well, you should check out someone you love's credit report.  Love, feelings have nothing to do with devoting your life to someone: it's all a business, as cold and as impersonal as any business.

      B) Get a copy of a certain pair of popular magazines that cover mechanics and science.  Look in the classified ad section.  To quote Obi Wan Kenobi, “You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.”  It's all there: “Make money stuffing envelopes!”  “Make money assembling_______ at home!”  And, relevant to this article, “New law stops bill collectors COLD!”

      Realize something right away: the people advertising in the classified section are bottom feeders with little money.  If they had anything of value to offer, they wouldn't be putting it in classified ads.  Chances are all they have is a PO Box access to a Xerox machine, and a business checking account.  A lot of them sent for the ripoff stuff advertised in both magazines, and decided they wanted to get in on it.  Some of their offers are fourth or fifth generation Xeroxes of ripoffs invented by other people.  Some of them are professional ripoff artists, called Biz Oppers.

      The standard modus operandi for these ripoff artists is to run an ad for a month or two, then close the PO Box, take the money and run.  And then in a few months, when the money runs out, they put up another ad and go after some new suckers.

      The old “New law stops bill collectors COLD” is one of the more blatant ripoffs.  Send your money in, and you will receive a sheet of paper with information on declaring bankruptcy.  This is information that is readily available for free.  In fact, all of the information in said classified ads can be put into two categories:

      1)       Information that can be acquired for free in your local library or on the internet

      2)       Information that is completely worthless, such as any ad that has the words “make money at home.”  No one in the history of the Earth has EVER made one dime from a “make money at home” classified ad—unless they decided to continue a ripoff ad they answered.

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